宅驱动图形卡产业的时代已经结束
The time of gamers driving the graphics card industry are, I think, coming to an end.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6uw4ub/vega_isnt_a_failure_its_the_next_stage_on_the/
全文如下：
I have been around computers a long time.It started with my buddy's TRS-80 Model 1, then I got my own C-64. Then a series of Amigas, a P1-233 dual-booted in DOS and Linux, and a bunch of AMD-powered Linux boxes (K7, K10, FX) and now I have a Windows Ryzen/Fury running in parallel with an 8370/R9 390 Linux box. Two other special purpose machines are running Phenom II X6/V4900, and Phenom II B95/750Ti. So I've been around for a while, and I've watched the definition of "personal computing" change over and over again.Let me give you a quick example: In the 90s, we had this thing called a "Video Toaster". This was a special-purpose card, unique to Amigas, that could taken in video sources, switch between them with digital transitions, and overlay text and graphics. You bought 3 good video tape decks (2 source, 1 record) and a time base corrector, and now you could do video titling, graphic overlay, chroma key (blue screen), and canned transition effects. It wasn't perfect - the VT didn't control the start/stop on the tape decks, so editing & synchronization was a pain - but it gave you access to tools that normally cost six figures for a few grand. Tough for a normal person to afford at 90s prices, but at least possible.A few years later, Newtek released the "Video Toaster Flyer" which was a new board that had 3 dedicated SCSI hard drive controllers on it. This let you rip tape footage to the hard drives and work all-digital - only 1 tape deck needed. This was obscenelyexpensive (not least because of the price of large capacity hard drives) but it sped up editing enormously. Still way way cheaper than the professional Hollywood editing suites, but expensive enough that you weren't going to pick this up at Best Buy on a whim, and complex enough that Grandma isn't going to set one up to edit birthday videos.Something else that came bundled with the VT was a 3D animation package called Lightwave (which still exists). My Lightwave renders could last weeks.Quick aside - the world's fastest commercially available supercomputer at the time was the Cray, which had managed to break the 1 teraflop threshold. Super super expensive machines, but if you needed that level of computer performance, you neededit.OK, so around this time 3DFX invents the Voodoo, and 3D gaming (and 3D gaming acceleration) takes off, and this starts the 3D GPU arms race. The world we have lived in (up to this point) starts to evolve, with GPU manufacturers building in more and more graphics horsepower (in terms of both raw compute power and in terms of hardware supported features) and games engine designers figuring out how to bring that horsepower to its knees with more complex geometry and shaders, bigger textures, and in-game physics. In parallel with this, screen resolutions grow from 640x480 (which was high res in the 90s) to 4k today, so now you are pushing orders of magnitude more pixels - requiring more power from the GPU.This demand for ever-increasing gaming horsepower has had two primary effects: The first is that has built a culture of expectation that each successive release of GPU hardware will result in a big jump in framerate at max quality settings in the AAA gaming titles of the time of release, and the second is that due to the increasing complexity of producing these expected results, the hardware has been getting increasingly general-purpose under the hood. Instead of being a collection of special-purpose hardware accelerators, each with a specific graphics primitive function associated with it, modern GPUs are more like complete computers in their own right. Drivers are no longer so much routers that send the associated API call to its special-purpose hardware, but rather implement the API on the underlying general purpose compute framework.(This is a bit of an oversimplification, but big hand, small map. it is generally true)A Vega has two-digit teraflop performance. It is over ten Craysworth of raw number-crunching. And unlike that 3DFX Voodoo, it can do general-purpose computer tasks, not just accelerate vertices and triangle shading.Which brings us back to the Video Toaster. A combination of astoundingly cheaper mass digital storage, recording equipment that is all-digital (and ubiquitous), cheap computing power, and free distribution (via YouTube) now means that video production has gone from strictly commercial only, through "prosumer" (Video Toaster) to Grandma. The cheapest OTS entry-level computer can run the home user version of Sony Vegas, and now Grandma can do fully-digital non linear editing - with titles, digital wipes, footage stabilization, green screen, and noise reduction - on those birthday videos. And meanwhile, gamers aren't just playing games, they are streaming them (with video and graphics overlays).This was unimaginable in the 90s. Now, it isn't just "possible", it is, to a degree, expected.And the developers of the software suites that do things like video editing have woken up to the idea that GPUs are ubiquitous and have the ability to accelerate or feature-improve their software. In many ways, the people who develop "creative" software are much like game developers shortly after the Voodoo hit. "I can do that? Holy crap!"We are right on the edge of a revolution in the use of GPU hardware to accelerate computing tasks. And it's not just "creative" software that will use this. Cryptocurrency mining is just one of the uses for general purpose GPU compute that someone has dreamt up - more of these sorts of tasks are on their way.So we've got a confluence of a number of things:The quest for better gaming performance pushed GPUs to be more general-purpose;It's getting harder and harder to squeeze more gaming performance out of the hardware. so the gaming performance increase per generation is dropping;Developers of non-gaming software are increasingly using the general-purpose compute power of GPUs to accomplish tasks and improve their software; andThe increased popularity and reduced cost of the hardware and software to accomplish these tasks is increasing demand for better general-purpose compute GPUs.
I built my Ryzen box specifically to speed up video editing. I game on it too, so I want "good enough" game performance, but what I really really want is faster Sony Vegas performance. I was going to buy a 1080 or 1080Ti - but then I discovered that AMD rules the Vegas acceleration roost, and by a large margin - so I bought a Fury for its general purpose capability. And then I discovered mining, and now both my Linux box and my Ryzen box mine during "idle hours" (my Fury is cranking out 30 Mh/s in an other window as I write this). Since I built the box, it has pulled in $200 worth of eth, which is not bad.On the surface, if you just look at gaming performance, Vega looks like a disappointment. It is faster than Fury for sure, but it didn't beat the 1080Ti. Except that Vega isn't about the gaming - it is the first of the real "general purpose compute" cards. Vega gives you 40 Mh/s mining. It crushes in Vegas acceleration. It is a solid win in all sorts of non-gaming applications - and because the drivers are more sophisticated than old-timey "route this API call to this dedicated API accelerator" drivers (and they are admittedly not feature-complete yet) I fully expect performance to keep increasing as the drivers get more developer horsepower applied to them.I honestly think AMD are ahead of the curve here. In the near-ish future, gaming framerates will be a sidebar feature of a GPU review, and what people will really care about will be GP-compute performance. The time of gamers driving the graphics card industry are, I think, coming to an end.And yet, even with the focus on GP-compute coming, it isn't like gaming performance sucks. If it wasn't for the 1080Ti (which is a brilliant gaming card, let's be honest) the Vega reviews would be non-stop accolades. Sure, the jump up from the previous gen is smaller, but the absolute performance is still great. It's a great card!I think it's time that gamers wake up to the new reality that they don't own the GPU market any more. Gaming is still important, but GP-compute GPU tasks are multiplying all the time and have broader market appeal. It's a bold, brave new world lads, and your monopoly on GPU use cases is coming to an end.
看完请选下读后感吧：
评论
选了5，确实看不懂啊
评论
手游越来越重要，游戏机也开始重新攻城拔寨，显卡干脆把视频输出端都去掉吧，都挖矿最好了
评论
你不好好跟ss玩，我们也没有PS的兔兔看了！
评论
评论
迟早的事情
评论
55555555
评论
我身边有两三张1080ti而且从来不玩游戏的人越来越多了
评论
就一个翻了二十多年老黄历的阿宅个人意见而已
AMD沉寂五年都能在CPU市场战翻牙膏厂，未来的产品不是没机会跟老黄一战
现阶段AMD显卡的确是挖矿比较有吸引力，但这并不是显卡本来的市场
整体来说就一个阿宅买了VEGA干不过1080Ti的牢骚而已
评论
1080Ti表示不知道amd这一年多在干什么。北极星打1060挺顺利的，到vega各种翻车。
评论
面无表情的投一个看不懂外语
评论
我比较同意9楼的观点
为游戏性能不行找点心理安慰罢了
General Computing N卡也没弱很多啊
挖矿Vega比起Polaris来也没优势
评论
阿Q精神
评论
楼上的各位，人家vega游戏性能不好，总得给别人一点吹牛皮的点吧，那么一针见血还让不让raja过日子了
评论
amd 显卡可以插针，看动画必备
评论
扯了半天一点干货都没有，果然是外国贴吧
评论
也没有翻车吧，有人觉得vega一定要打泰坦的问题
评论
北极星打1060顺利吗，难道不是惨胜？大得多的规模还超到了极限。2306sp干1280sp。250w干120w。amd的gcn架构充其量也就开普勒++的级别。
评论
150w的480时候不说拿250w的580说么
评论
480又干不过1066
评论
打谁不打谁都是RTG钦定的啊
评论
我很想说些什么。。。但是无奈看不懂鸟文。
评论
我是宅，我投降(˶‾᷄ ⁻̫ ‾᷅˵) 我自己相信“计算”一定是将来的趋势，崇尚wolframalpha的万物皆计算；不过这哥们拿自己代表整个行业……好吧……
评论
你不翻我可就百度了哦！你怕不怕！
评论
刚开始定频是180瓦，150瓦的公版默认性能不够看，5300FSE
评论
看完了，全文简单的叙述了他的电脑使用历史和显卡的发展历史。然后话锋一转，随着显卡的发展，显卡不再是游戏的再用代名词了。
多用途的发展是显卡的未来的方向，GPU视频编辑加速，GPU计算机，GPU软件加速，以及GPU挖矿，并且显卡现在已经走在发展的分叉口上来了，显卡不再是专门玩游戏了。越来越多的更多的用途将被挖崛出来。文中最后顺带说了一下，VEGA虽然挖矿赚钱，但对比1080TI还是差的远。1080TI还是夜空中最亮的星星。
所以楼主那五个选项我一个不选，因为没有讲到重点。
评论
不错不错，英语和语文都很好
评论
机密我肯定是选5了
评论
这么说显卡以后不分专业 游戏显卡了 厂商可不会这么干
评论
就算你现在用公版480也不止5300 fse吧
那时候我的480电压加到1.25跑1.4G+ FSE都6300+了 破解驱动功耗电压限制跑的 所以跑不稳只有这分
这种强行给狂怒X和Vega找存在理由还写得一本正经，就算翻了也没法弄出逗比感觉的破文有啥好翻的
之前那个说按摩店在放烟雾弹的文要有趣得多了
啥General Purpose Compute啊，整个General Purpose Compute不就是老黄炒出来的概念么
现在风水轮流转轮到AMD来玩这一手了嘛？
我看看现在在GPU上跑的程序，还不是和以前一样只有拥有特定特征的计算负载能跑的飞快，还需要搭配上老黄或者第三方某某库的专业优化，完全感觉不到General在哪了
评论
国外也有精神胜利的正义伙伴啊...
评论
这就是阿Q吧
评论
amd桑大胜利
可本宅还没玩上vr呢，3A水平画面双眼高分辨率120帧什么时候能办到呢
评论
转贴还要考yingyu 表示选5
评论
所以这种思维跳跃我只能投降了呀
评论
大概就是说，Vega有更强的通用运算性能，在并行运算加速方面有很大潜力。游戏性能不行，是因为它不是只给游戏死宅准备的
评论
总结来说就是不是卡不行而是这届买家不行....
评论
我还是不懂，还是不懂。
评论
这调调我好像在nvidia gtx480时候见过类似的
评论
也就PRO N的粉丝在上下吆喝 史上最烂芯片Vega R600 290都自愧不如
评论
当年买个公版980就是为了看个信仰灯……
评论
太长不看！
评论
犹豫了很久还是选了5
评论
这表情太到位了lol
评论
Vega至少是黑苹果神器
评论
这是IMEC的报告。这家实力超群，已经完成了5NM的试制。同时也是中芯和华为的合作伙伴。
评论
vega成功了？
评论
继承了fury的余晖，是从胜利走向胜利。 电路 电子 维修 我现在把定影部分拆出来了。想换下滚，因为卡纸。但是我发现灯管挡住了。拆不了。不会拆。论坛里的高手拆解过吗？ 评论 认真看，认真瞧。果然有收 电路 电子 维修 求创维42c08RD电路图 评论 电视的图纸很少见 评论 电视的图纸很少见 评论 创维的图纸你要说 版号，不然无能为力 评论 板号5800-p42ALM-0050 168P-P42CLM-01
·日本中文新闻 唐田绘里香为新剧《极恶女王》剃光头 展现演员决心
·日本中文新闻 真子小室夫妇新居引发隐私担忧
·日本中文新闻 前AKB48成员柏木由纪与搞笑艺人交往曝光
·日本学校 ｛日本国际学校｝梅田インターナショナルスクール
·日本学校 LINE：sm287 陳雨菲、20歳、台湾からの留学生、東京に来たばかり
·日本留学生活 出售平成22年走行48000km 代步小车
·日本华人网络交流 円相場 一時1ドル＝140円台まで上昇？
·日本华人网络交流 问日本华人一个问题
·日本旅游代购 富山接机
·生活百科 英国转澳大利亚转换插头
·汽车 【求助】修车遇到困难怎么办？